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Repacking the Front Hubs on your [Spec] Miata

Content borrowed from FAQ section of SpecMiata.com
Pictures added to assist in visualization of this procedure.
 

(ED note - Karl mentioned that he'd be happy to repack the hubs. If you are remotely hesitant, I would take him up on it.)


Author
Topic: Front Hub Repacking
Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 04-05-2002 01:47 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message

Here is the text I wrote April 2001. I added {some text} for this post. This was initially written for old hubs, but new hubs should also be repacked before use.

++++++++++++++++++

Just in case someone DOES want to DIY.
It's simple:

-unbolt the two caliper bracket bolts and move the caliper assembly out of the way
-Remove hub from axle {29 mm SIX point socket}
-Insert (2) two small washers in the gap between the front and back inner races
-Insert a socket (with short extension) which JUST fits into the race's bore (21 mm in my case) until it contacts the washers
-Tap on the extension a couple times to drive the race out (it's easier to tap out the front race first since you can rest the hub on the studs on the floor)
-Change to a slightly bigger socket and drive out the back inner race (This can be tougher since the hub is not much bigger than the race and you really don't want to damage the seal, so be careful here.)
-MAKE A MENTAL NOTE OF HOW THE BBs ARE SUPPORTED BY THE PLASTIC HOLDERS

-Pop the BBs out of the plastic holders with a flathead (careful not to damage the outer race surfaces machined into the hub) and put them in a plastic cup with some WD40
(keep the inner and outer bearing sets separate)

-Carefully remove the inserts {OUT THE FRONT OF THE HUB}


Ball Bearing Insert - positioned exactly as you would be looking at it in the hub

-Use a SMALL flathead to CAREFULLY pop out the rear seal. {Just keep moving the flathead around to distribute the load}


(I used a small flathead screwdriver inserted from the OUTER end of the hub and a hammer to tap it out.  In the process, I deformed the metal ring and almost destroyed the seal - GMK)

I use the weight of the hub and the garage floor to tap the seal out which is much more friendly to the seal than prying it out.


{-CLEAN the knuckle's machined lip where the hub's seal will contact it.}

 
-Keep each bearing set separated if the hub has some miles on it. Just use two WD40 filled cups.


Inner and Outer wheel bearing sets with races, separated

-Clean, clean, clean. A toothbrush and some compressed air works great on the plastic inserts and the gap in the back of the seal.


(picture of the round spring in the seal. I was able to insert it back in. It looks just like DIFF Oil Seal - GMK)

{Be careful not to damage or blow out the round spring in the seal}

-When everything is clean, inspect for corrosion, dings, etc.

-If everything looks good repack* and reassemble (put the rear seal in last see my post from 2/17/02 below)


Inner wheel bearing & race (not installed)



Inner wheel bearing with race installed. Due to the vast amounts of Redline CV2 grease on the hub, I used a large socket in a clean plastic bag as a drift to drive the race back into the hub - GMK

-The races will tap back in with slight resistance. (more than slight resistance in my case - GMK)

-Remount, torque {125 - 160 ft*lbs} and try to wobble. Tighten until the play goes away.
(I used an air impact tool and tightened it until it would not tighten any more.  Dave Wheeler of www.Advanced-Autosports.com suggested that some of the hub failures occur due to low torque in reinstallation of the front hubs - GMK)

-Grease {I now use RTV instead of grease} the hub's front cap and tap it on.
{-Remove the cap and Re-torque after the initial six hours}

Don't be worried if it seems like the hub spun more freely before you did all that work.

{If you don't want to go to the trouble, Karl will be glad to repack your hubs for you. 512 423 9740} (I would take Karl up on it - GMK)

*Please use Redline CV-2. I've tried three other brands and they all separate.

[ 02-17-2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Karl ]


--------------------
"Special K"
Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 
Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 07-06-2002 05:39 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message 

Sorry, I've been out of town. I don't have enough data yet. I suspect if you keep the grease clean you could go quite a while and that means keeping the hubs sealed from the elements. I pulled both of my hubs down after about 12 hours and there was only a small bit of metallic discoloration. It's easy to seal the front cap on the hub, but it might be quite another thing to keep the rear seal operating properly. Check that seal twice a year and keep the sealing surface on the knuckle clean. Every time you do that you can glance at the grease and make your own call from there.

I'm still working on an aftermarket seal replacement.


--------------------
"Special K"
 

Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Kevin Morrison Verified Spec Miata Driver
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Icon 5 posted 12-11-2002 06:20 PM      Profile for Kevin Morrison     Send New Private Message 

What the heck is wrong with me? I'm still using the original 125k mile hubs that the car came with when I bought it two years ago. Two seasons of racing and practice days and they still seem to be ok. I'm afraid to touch them for fear I'll have nothing but hub failures if I do!

Kevin

Posts: 516 | From: Tampa | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 12-11-2002 11:01 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message

Re: replacement seals, I see someone mentioned not being able to find them.

Is this something I should order from MazdaMotorsports...


They don't sell the seals.

How about the dustcaps, are they going to break when I take them off?

No, but they may deform a bit. Nothing a little bit of RTV won't fix. They just need to provide a water tight seal when they are in place.

Get a proper seal puller (Sears or Pep Boys have them, even Harbor Freight sells one) and be gentle.

Save your money. I've used the flathead screwdriver trick to tap out countless seals with NO deformation. Prying them out WILL screw them up.

I'm afraid to touch them for fear I'll have nothing but hub failures if I do!

You need not be afraid.

[ 12-11-2002, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Karl ]


--------------------
"Special K"
 

Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 12-11-2002 11:16 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message 

I was going to install new front hubs, but I wasn't planning to repack them first since I'm afraid that I'll damage the seals.

Sorry, this needs to be said again.

That would be a big, expensive mistake. Send them to me if you are scared or run them for ten hours until they fail and then have COMP send your next set via my place.  The new seals tap out much more easily than the old ones. Just keep moving the flathead around to distribute the load.

[ 12-11-2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: Karl ]


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"Special K"
 

Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Fireball
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Icon 1 posted 12-12-2002 01:49 AM      Profile for Fireball     Send New Private Message 

MM doesn't sell the seals? What if I mess them up on removal? Then I'm just out of luck?

Posts: 107 | From: Atl, GA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

jigou Verified Spec Miata Driver
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Icon 1 posted 12-12-2002 09:17 AM      Profile for jigou     Send New Private Message 

quote:

Originally posted by Fireball:
MM doesn't sell the seals? What if I mess them up on removal? Then I'm just out of luck?

Yep, out of luck. From what I've heard, the front hubs are not a serviceable item according to Mazda. The "official" service of the hubs is to replace the entire assembly with new.

Jarrod

Posts: 119 | From: Des Moines, Iowa | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

khaywood Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor
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Icon 1 posted 12-12-2002 02:08 PM      Profile for khaywood     Send New Private Message  

Something's amiss here. I often read here of guys repacking or replacing hubs, but first hand experience and pit/paddock discussions question the need for so frequent hub replacement. What gives? Is this a regional thing, weather related, urban legend?

Like many, I ran all season on old (110k mile) hubs. They look and work just fine.

Posts: 42 | From: Valley Center, CA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 12-12-2002 02:18 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message 

The hubs have changed over the years. The early hubs must have had better grease and they also had a grease retaining ring in front of the outer race that the new hubs just don't have. You WILL wear out the old hubs soon and when you replace them with new hubs that you have not repacked and they fail in under twenty hours you will understand. Listen if you choose or let experience be your guide. I'm just trying to help you save some money and time.

--------------------
"Special K"
 

Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

khaywood Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor
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Icon 1 posted 12-13-2002 04:08 PM      Profile for khaywood     Send New Private Message 

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:
The hubs have changed over the years. The early hubs must have had better grease and they also had a grease retaining ring in front of the outer race that the new hubs just don't have. You WILL wear out the old hubs soon and when you replace them with new hubs that you have not repacked and they fail in under twenty hours you will understand. Listen if you choose or let experience be your guide. I'm just trying to help you save some money and time.

Thanks, Karl. I was not aware that there had been a change in design. I will certainly heed well founded advise over wives' tales.

Posts: 42 | From: Valley Center, CA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Mark Bennett Website Donor
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Icon 1 posted 02-17-2003 12:07 PM      Profile for Mark Bennett     Send New Private Message      

Karl-

Thanks for the great writeup - I successfully repacked my hubs last night. Despite your pep-talk, I was afraid to mess with the seal and chose to simply clean in and around it as best I could. Any thoughts on this shortcut?

-Mark

Posts: 19 | From: NEOhio | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

Karl Verified Spec Miata Driver Website Donor Series Champion
2001 ARRC Winner



 
Icon 1 posted 02-17-2003 02:22 PM      Profile for Karl     Send New Private Message 

Any thoughts on this shortcut?

Yes!!!! (what else is new  )

Chances are VERY high that the seal is not riding properly on the rear race. You really need to install the seal AFTER you tap the rear race back in. Take a look. You MAY be able to use a needle to pull the seal back onto the race, BUT you may tear the seal while doing so.

Did that make sense? The seal tapers from inside to out, so if you push the rear race into the seal it will collapse on itself since the ID of the seal is less than the OD of the race. That's obvious right? The seal has to be a bit smaller than the race so that it can "grab" it to provide a good seal.

You just didn't know the seal tapered from inside to out. I made the same mistake the first time I put a hub back together.


--------------------
"Special K"
 

Posts: 885 | From: SW SM#10 Austin, TX | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | 

Mark Bennett Website Donor
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 posted 02-17-2003 03:37 PM      Profile for Mark Bennett     Send New Private Message 

Ahhhhhhhh ......... I didn't pay attention to the seal possibly folding back on itself... I figured it was just like a diff seal ... I was thinking pop it in, pop it out, what's the difference? Oops. $#%^$#^$%$%!!!

I guess what I don't understand is your instructions on tapping the seal out - Why do you specify a SMALL screwdriver? Wouldn't that increase the chances of poking through the seal? When tapping on the seal from the inside aren't you tapping on rubber, and not a metal lip?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Mark

Posts: 19 | From: NEOhio | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

Ken Tubbs
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Icon 1 posted 02-17-2003 04:01 PM      Profile for Ken Tubbs     Send New Private Message 

Mark,

If you do this right you are tapping on metal, not rubber. This is one of those things that is obvious once you get the seal out. I actually went to a junk yard to get a trashed hub so that I could destroy one (which I did) during the learning curve.

Clean things up real nice and use a good light to look inside the hub. You should see a small channel in the seal that the screwdriver fits in. Use the biggest small screwdriver that fits in the seal groove.

Ken


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Ken
SM #50
 

Posts: 33 | From: Corvallis, OR | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

 

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